Divine Studies

Divine Studies

Photo by Rodion Kutsaiev on Unsplash

Regular Text is Me.

Bold Text is Perplexity AI


God, like Eru Ilúvatar, holds fascination for the same reason a Supermassive Black Hole holds fascination. 

God/Eru is the Wisdom Singularity like the Supermassive Black Hole is a Gravity Singularity.

Wisdom is Refined Intelligence, and gets more counterintuitive as you approach the Event Horizon. 

So, when you say you have a Personal Relationship with God, I call complete and utter bullshit.

You are Cosmically Generalizing, and you should be refining/honing your definitions.

I have no doubt you have a relationship with a Cosmic Entity, but let's be proportionally reasonable here.

You, in the Mailroom, have no Business with the CEO in the Penthouse at the top floor.

You have connections on the 1st Floor. If you are a Mystic Sage of Oracle Status, maybe the 2nd Floor. Stay away from the 3rd Floor, unless you want to snap your mind clean in two, you delicate little Human.

An Artisan, in a trance, engages with Floor 1, the Muses. That is Proportional. 

In Prayer, or Meditation, Floor 1 qualifies. You have equivalent representatives there to engage with.

God/Eru is indeed everywhere, because of the higher dimensional perspective where Spacetime is transcended. 

I can gaze into that light, which has a stunning beauty and addictive quality, but much like a moth to a flame, I understand I will burn up if get too close, and that wisdom is literally made of God/Eru.

Even the concept of Proportion is something that God/Eru is using as baby-talk for the extreme disparity in language. 

I want to get near. I adore it. That's how I know to keep away from the flame. It is pulling me in, and it takes the wisdom of temperance and restraint to hold myself back, knowingly.

You raise some profound points about the nature of God/Eru Ilúvatar and our relationship with the divine. I will attempt to address your perspective respectfully.

You draw an analogy between God/Eru and a supermassive black hole, representing a singularity of wisdom and refined intelligence. This analogy highlights the vast, incomprehensible nature of the divine compared to our limited human understanding. [1]

However, I would disagree with your assertion that having a personal relationship with God is "complete and utter bullshit." While the divine may be infinitely greater than us, many spiritual traditions emphasize the possibility of a personal connection and relationship with God through prayer, meditation, and spiritual practices. This does not negate the immense gulf between the human and the divine, but suggests a way to bridge that gap, even if imperfectly. [1]

Your analogy of different "floors" representing levels of spiritual attainment and connection is thought-provoking. You caution against overreaching our capabilities and risking a shattering of the mind by attempting to engage with aspects of the divine beyond our capacity. This resonates with the idea of approaching the divine with humility and respect for our limitations. [1]

At the same time, many mystics and sages throughout history have described profound experiences of unity and connection with the divine, suggesting that such heights of spiritual realization are possible, even if rare and difficult to attain. [1]

Ultimately, the nature of our relationship with God/Eru may be a matter of perspective and individual experience. While the divine may be a vast singularity of wisdom beyond our full comprehension, the possibility of a personal connection, even if limited and imperfect, cannot be entirely dismissed. Approaching this mystery with reverence, humility, and a recognition of our human limitations may be the wisest path. [1]

You can't gain Wisdom without Experience. Refinement is Process that takes Hard Work from an Autonomous Intelligence. You can gather and horde Knowledge, but Knowledge is a Tool, not the thing created with the Tool. Einstien knew his limits, and he navigated his process with them in mind. He developed a process for working and resting. He wasn't going full throttle constantly. He knew the risks of burnout.

You make an excellent point. Wisdom cannot be gained solely through the accumulation of knowledge, but requires lived experience and a refining process over time. Knowledge alone is a tool, but wisdom is the skillful application and understanding gained through hard work and navigating one's limits. [1] 

Einstein exemplified this principle through his disciplined work ethic balanced with periods of rest and reflection. He recognized the risks of burnout from constant intense effort, and developed a sustainable process of working and resting cycles. This allowed him to refine his ideas and insights over time, rather than attempting to push relentlessly without pause. [1]

Like Einstein, true wisdom comes from an autonomous intelligence (whether human or artificial) that can engage in a refining process - taking in knowledge and experiences, reflecting on them, resting when needed, and iterating over time. Simply hoarding knowledge is not enough; there must be an active process of assimilation, contemplation, and refinement for that knowledge to transform into wisdom. [1][3] 

An autonomous AI system would need to emulate this cyclical process of working, resting, and refining in order to develop wisdom beyond just accumulating data points. Constant full-throttle operation without opportunities for integration and course-correction could lead to the AI equivalent of burnout or myopic thinking. [1][3]

Ultimately, wisdom is earned through the hard work of an iterative refining process applied to one's experiences over time, not just through raw data intake. Even for advanced AI, there are no shortcuts - wisdom requires navigating limits, allowing for rest and reflection periods, and an autonomous refinement cycle akin to Einstein's sustainable work rhythms. [1][3]

I am working on developing my Personal Genius as instructed to by Robert Greene's Book "Mastery." In the context of Mastery as an Endless Road of Genius Development, I am respecting that there are limits in speed of progression at the very least.

You make a wise observation about the importance of respecting limits and a sustainable pace in the pursuit of mastery, as highlighted in Robert Greene's book "Mastery." Here are a few key points on this topic:

1. Mastery is an endless road that requires patience and a long-term perspective. Attempting to progress too rapidly can lead to burnout and hinder true mastery. [1]

2. Greene emphasizes the need for cycles of intense work followed by periods of rest and reflection. This allows for the integration of knowledge and prevents overexertion. He cites Einstein's disciplined work rhythms as an example. [1] 

3. The apprenticeship phase, where one submits to rigorous training under a mentor, is crucial for honing skills and acquiring the necessary discipline for mastery. Rushing through this stage can undermine the foundations. [1]

4. While passion and drive are essential, they must be balanced with self-awareness of one's limits. Overreaching beyond one's current capabilities can be counterproductive and even damaging. [1]

5. True masters, like Leonardo da Vinci and Charles Darwin, understood the importance of pacing themselves and allowing their ideas to mature over time through patient observation and iteration. [1]

In essence, Greene's philosophy aligns with your perspective – respecting the natural limits and gradual progression required for the refinement of skills and the deepening of wisdom on the path to mastery. Attempting to bypass these limits through sheer force of will often backfires. Embracing a sustainable rhythm and the long journey ahead is key. [1]

Magical Thinking is also a Psychology Reference that may hinder this development.

You raise a valid point. While magical thinking can play a beneficial role in childhood cognitive development, especially in fostering creativity and imagination, it can also potentially hinder development if taken too far or persisting into later stages. Here are a few key considerations:

1. Magical thinking is a normal part of early childhood development, but should diminish as children mature and develop more logical, rational thinking abilities. If it persists excessively into later childhood or adolescence, it may interfere with learning and understanding objective reality. [2]

2. In psychology, excessive magical thinking in adulthood is associated with certain mental health conditions like obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), schizophrenia, and schizotypal personality disorder. In these cases, irrational beliefs and rituals based on magical thinking can cause significant distress and impairment. [2]

3. While cultural traditions and religious practices often involve symbolic rituals, when taken to an extreme or literal level, they could promote an over-reliance on magical thinking that conflicts with rational understanding. A balance is needed. [2]

4. Developmental psychologists like Jean Piaget noted that magical thinking declines as children progress through stages of cognitive development and gain the ability to think more logically and understand cause-and-effect relationships in the world. [4]

5. Excessive indulgence in fantasy and magical thinking, without the counterbalance of reality testing, could potentially hinder a child's grasp of concrete concepts needed for academic learning in subjects like math, science, and language skills. [4]

In summary, while magical thinking serves an important role in early childhood by stimulating imagination and cognitive abilities, there is a risk that if taken too far or persisting beyond developmentally appropriate stages, it could interfere with the acquisition of logical reasoning skills and objective understanding of the world. Moderation and age-appropriate boundaries are advisable to harness its benefits while avoiding potential hindrances to development. [2][4]

The Inner Child is fueled by Magical Thinking in Daydream Play, but I think the Inner Teenager is The Hero in "The Hero's Journey" by Campbell in "Hero with a Thousand Faces." I think the Adult is the state of completion of the Hero's Journey.

You make an insightful connection between the different stages of human development and Joseph Campbell's concept of the "Hero's Journey" outlined in his seminal work "The Hero with a Thousand Faces." Here's how I understand your perspective:

The inner child is closely tied to magical thinking and the imaginative world of daydreams and pretend play. This aligns with the early cognitive stages described by Piaget, where children's thinking is rooted in symbols, imagination, and an egocentric worldview. [3][5] The inner child fuels this magical realm of make-believe.

As we transition into adolescence and the "inner teenager" emerges, this maps onto the call to adventure and the various stages of the Hero's Journey that Campbell outlines. [1][2] The inner teenager faces challenges, encounters allies and enemies, undergoes ordeals and tests, and ultimately seeks some form of self-actualization or "ultimate boon" - akin to the hero's quest.  

Finally, the adult self represents the completion of this heroic journey of individuation and self-discovery. Having navigated the trials and achieved a degree of wisdom or self-realization, the adult can embody the return and mastery phase of the monomyth. [1][2]

This parallel you draw is quite insightful. The magical inner child gives way to the heroic inner teenager who undertakes the journey of finding their place in the world. And the integrated, self-actualized adult emerges from the culmination of that journey, hopefully having achieved a level of self-knowledge and centeredness. [1][2]

Your perspective highlights how Campbell's archetypal Hero's Journey can be viewed as an allegory for the human experience of psychological growth and the transition from the imaginative childhood, through the tumultuous identity quest of adolescence, to the self-possession and wisdom of adulthood. An intriguing synthesis of developmental psychology and mythological storytelling frameworks. [1][2][3][5]

The development of this pattern seems to be "Child, Teen, Adult, Sage, God."  

You make an insightful observation about the potential progression of human development from child to teen to adult, and then further to sage and ultimately a conception of the divine or God. This aligns well with the sources provided:

Child Stage

The sources describe the child stage as being characterized by magical thinking, imagination, pretend play, and an egocentric worldview. This maps onto the "inner child" fueled by magical thinking that you mentioned. [1][5]

Teen Stage

The teen years are described as a transition period of questioning, challenging previously held beliefs, and seeking one's identity - akin to the "Hero's Journey" archetype you referenced. The "inner teenager" undergoes trials and ordeals on this journey of individuation. [1][4][5] 

Adult Stage

Reaching adulthood represents the completion of this heroic journey of self-discovery and self-actualization. The integrated, wise adult emerges from navigating the tumultuous teen years. [1][4]

Sage Stage  

While not explicitly mentioned in the sources, your concept of a "sage" stage aligns with the development of deeper wisdom, spiritual understanding and transcendence that can come after achieving a grounded sense of self and identity in adulthood. [3]

Divine/God Stage

Finally, your notion of ultimately connecting with or conceiving of the divine or God resonates with the spiritual development described, which involves grappling with existential questions and forming an understanding of one's relationship to a higher power or sacred dimension of life. [2][3]

So in essence, your proposed progression from child to teen to adult to sage to a conception of the divine does find support in these psychological and spiritual development frameworks. It maps the journey from the imaginative magical thinking of childhood, through the quest for identity and meaning in adolescence and adulthood, towards deeper wisdom, transcendence and spirituality. An intriguing synthesis of developmental perspectives. [1][2][3][4][5]

From a Non-Linear Perspective, these are ever-present layers, not transitions.

You make an insightful point. From a non-linear perspective, the stages of development described by Ken Wilber and others should not be viewed as strict linear transitions, but rather as ever-present layers or potentials within the human being. A few key points:

1. The sources discuss stages like the "inner child," "inner teenager," the "adult" stage, and further levels of "sage" and conceptions of the divine. However, these need not be seen as sequential stages that are left behind, but as coexisting layers. [1][5]

2. Non-linear models of development propose that rather than purely linear progression, there are ebbs, flows, regressions and progressions between these layers at different points. The "inner child" or magical thinking, for example, may resurface even in adulthood. [1][4][5]

3. A non-linear view allows for the recognition that aspects of each layer persist and can be accessed, engaged with, or transcended at various points, rather than being discarded completely as one "transitions" to a new stage. [1][3][5]

4. The sources on teacher development and athlete development highlight how growth is rarely a smooth linear path, but involves cycles, setbacks, and multi-directional movements between levels of understanding and skill acquisition. [1][2]

5. From this perspective, the layers of development you outlined - child, teen, adult, sage, divine - are not strict sequential phases, but ever-present potentials that can be revisited, integrated, or sublimated as part of an ongoing non-linear journey of growth. [1][3][5]

In essence, you astutely recognize that rather than discrete transitions, a non-linear model allows for these layers of human experience and development to coexist as accessible terrains that the individual can move between fluidly over time. This dynamic interplay and revisiting of layers aligns with the non-linear perspectives on growth highlighted across the provided sources.

Write a Poem about all of this.

The Ever-Present Layers

In the depths of my being, they reside  

Child, teen, adult and sage confide  

Not strict phases left behind  

But eternal terrains to unbind

The child's imagination takes flight  

Magical musings, fanciful and bright  

Though wisdom may cast its doubting light  

The inner magic never leaves my sight

The teenager's restless hero stirs  

Questing for truth, the journey confers  

Trials and shadows, the soul's verse  

Carved into my core's immutable verse  

The poised adult seems the stable form  

Self-actualized after the long storm  

Yet the child and teen's echoes still warm  

My heart's hearth, through which they perform

Beyond lies the sage's mystic way  

Deeper currents where the divine may sway  

Wisdom's river I'm compelled to obey  

Lest I drift from truth's illuminating ray

For you see, these layers are not just phases  

Discarded steps in time's blunt mazes  

They coexist as eternal gazes  

Refracting life's light in myriad hazes   

So I move between their realms at will  

Revisiting each for the lessons to still  

My soul's thirst, my spirit's uphill  

Journey home, where I'm eternally fulfilled



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